A Comment by Ravi Zacharias on the Slaughter of Various Peoples
On August 8, 2019, Ravi Zacharias, founder of RZIM ministries, tweeted the following observations in response to those who claim that religion is somehow more responsible for the slaughter of people than the non-religious. Since I have recently posted comments to the speech of Archbishop Chaput who raised this same issue, I thought that his comments add to what Archibishop Chaput had been saying. Pastor Zacharias writes:
I sometimes hear critics say, "Religion has slaughtered its thousands." Such an overgeneralization reveals a bankruptcy both in one’s knowledge of history and philosophy. Are they forgetting the two atheistic regimes of Russia and China?Christ did not teach Christians to kill those who disagree with our religious views, and He couldn't have been more clear that we are to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. When a person claiming the mantle of Christ kills another in His name, by definition that person has violated the teachings of the very person he claims to be upholding.
The difference between the killing in the Crusades and the slaughter by atheists is that those who kill in the name of God are violating his character. Those who kill in the name of man are being consistent with secular humanism's bankruptcy in finding absolutes.
But atheism -- especially the type that teaches that all that exists is nature (matter and energy) -- does not and cannot provide an absolute morality. As the Existentialists discovered, the only way that people can find meaning in a universe without God is to create their own meaning. It doesn't matter how one creates that meaning in an atheistic worldview; whether by helping refugees or killing dozens of people. Both are seen as equivalent morally, and the only reason we prefer the first is our religious upbringing.
Pastor Zacharias's point should be explored more carefully by those who reject God because he is right; without God there is no compelling moral reason to favor helping people over killing people.
Comments
That was a good observation 50 years ago when existentialism was still big. As we have seen on a thousand message boards modern atheist don't buy that. They don't think like existentialists.
These were regimes under a specific ideology of communism, not atheism. There is a huge difference between the world view of a Russian communist and a western atheist.
Not sure about China, but Russia was very anti-religion because the church had historically supported the Tsars in their oppression of the common people, and the attack on the church was pretty much revenge (Marx also alluded to hand the church had in supporting the ruling elite).
BK: On August 8, 2019, Ravi Zacharias, founder of RZIM ministries, tweeted the following observations in response to those who claim that religion is somehow more responsible for the slaughter of people than the non-religious.
Of course Christians and communists pale into insignicance beside God, and the millions drown in the flood. And then there are the billions he tortures in the afterlife (if you believe in hell). Oh, and the billions he terminates before they are even born if you think a human being starts at conception.
BK: But atheism -- especially the type that teaches that all that exists is nature (matter and energy) -- does not and cannot provide an absolute morality.
No it does not. But please do not conclude that atheists therefore have no morality. The most Christian country in the western world is the US; look at how they treat their poor. Look at the horror so many US Christians feel at the thought of providing free healthcare for the needy. Do you really think that that is moral?
Pix
Funny how he is now called "Pastor Zacharias". He used to be "Dr. Zacharias" until he got busted for lying his credentials and history. Why should anyone listen to what this compulsive liar has to say about anything???
I never took his academic pretension seriously. His education is all bible college and I'm not sure he even got a doctorate of any kind but one could get a doctorate in that milieu but it really cheapens the reputation of real theology.
still Jesus never even got to bible college.
The point is we know the guy is a liar.
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2017/12/04/ravi-zacharias-lied-about-his-credentials-and-its-all-your-fault/
This is a discussion about morality. How can we take Christian morality seriously when the guy being quoted in the OP is known to be dishonest?
What does that tell us about Christian morality? It tell us some Christians think it is okay to lie, and it tells us other Christians will look the other way when they do.
Joe: still Jesus never even got to bible college.
He had a lot to say about hypocrisy though.
Pix
what does this tell us about atheists and informal fallacies like guilt by association?
btw I didn't quote him
I am saying Zacharias is a hypocrite when he criticises the morality of others, and would be better served sorting out the beam in his own eye.
Joe: what does this tell us about atheists and informal fallacies like guilt by association?
And that is exactly what Zacharias is doing when he says "Are they forgetting the two atheistic regimes of Russia and China?". Will you go on record stating that Zacharias committed that fallacy?
Joe: btw I didn't quote him
Never said you did.
Pix
Joe: btw I didn't quote him
Never said you did.
you are right both of you did guilt by association so you are like him. I'm kidding he did do that on all atheists but you are not doing it on all Christians because you did qualify it. good going,
https://www.rzim.org/read/rzim-global/rzim-statement-on-ravi-zacharias-biography
More lies
"RZ "holds three doctoral degrees." - This claim appears on the jacket of his 2008 book New Birth or Rebirth, as well as in his author bio at Penguin and Random House. At his own official bio he similarly claimed to have multiple doctorates and failed to disclose that they were merely honorary."
http://www.lyingforjesus.org/images/Zacharias-Doctoral-Degrees-lrg.jpg
In describing his "doctorates" at his website bio, the word "honorary" did not appear until October 2016
More lies
"RZ "holds three doctoral degrees." - This claim appears on the jacket of his 2008 book New Birth or Rebirth, as well as in his author bio at Penguin and Random House. At his own official bio he similarly claimed to have multiple doctorates and failed to disclose that they were merely honorary."
sounds like his publiher's claim
http://www.lyingforjesus.org/images/Zacharias-Doctoral-Degrees-lrg.jpg
In describing his "doctorates" at his website bio, the word "honorary" did not appear until October 2016
final analysis he is a telavangelist. so what can we expect?
An honest person would have detracted that publicly once pointed out to him. He didn't,
This is why I lost my trust in Christian apologists. They always put the most improbable positive spin to support Christianity or Christians. If RZ would have been Muslim, apologists would have just kept calling him out as a liar. Apologist like use car salesmen don't want you to know the objective truth.
But ask yourself this question: If it hadn't been Ravi Zacharias stating this, what would be your objection? If Anderson Cooper had made the same claim, would it make a difference? If not, then you are simply building up a big Ad Hominem by going after the speaker rather than the argument.
Is this the fallacy of guilt by association? If it is, then the response is perfectly appropriate because he is responding to a claim that make Christians guilty by association, too. If that's not your objection to what he said, or if you try to object to what he said on other grounds, you have to apply the same rule to both sides of the argument. In either case, the comment is appropriate because both sides are apparently applying the same standard.