tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post6979878267371722753..comments2024-03-14T08:15:15.207-07:00Comments on CADRE Comments: Easter reflections on Christology, Part I: In Adam's sin, we sinned all...BKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-64835257891740485192009-04-13T19:54:00.000-07:002009-04-13T19:54:00.000-07:00ou can fill in the blanks on what Hinman actually ...ou can fill in the blanks on what Hinman actually said above. My manners aren't bad enough to even quote him directly here.<br /><br />And, to set the record straight, I graduated with a degree in fine art and am going back for a second degree in applied math.<br /><br />Note, Hinman, that I never called YOU by any insulting term. I called YOUR ESSAY rambling, amorphous gibberish. Yes. Which is Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-16395142007712435322009-04-13T19:52:00.000-07:002009-04-13T19:52:00.000-07:00I've lost all respect for you Ellis. here's why. Y...I've lost all respect for you Ellis. here's why. You had a choice, you chose the coward's choice. i laid the argument out for you and tried to build the foundation for understanding. you could have chose two things:<br /><br />(1) show what's wrong with it.<br /><br />(2) say "I don't understand this is out of my area." <br /><br />no dishon0r there. You chose in instead the cowardly way out. Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-72705469459589200382009-04-13T19:40:00.000-07:002009-04-13T19:40:00.000-07:00that just shows how silly you are. The argument is...that just shows how silly you are. The argument is way over your head. Do you not know who Derrida was? never hard of him hu?<br /><br />you are just saying "reading, its' just a bunch of squiggles." <br /><br />why can't you be honest and just say 'that's over my head." stop trying to save face. you make your self seem a lot more ignorant.<br /><br />come on who is the Hume guy anyway? what a Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-64221973584737608442009-04-13T19:31:00.000-07:002009-04-13T19:31:00.000-07:00Hinman, IMHO your "transcendental signifier" argum...Hinman, IMHO your "transcendental signifier" argument for theism is amorphous, rambling gibberish. I'm not going to waste my time dissecting an "argument" that's as vague and insubstantial as a puff of smoke. <br /><br />I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings but its my honest frank opinion about the essay. I'm not going to pull my punches simply because you're sensitive about your apologetic David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-17990745286394195492009-04-13T17:52:00.000-07:002009-04-13T17:52:00.000-07:00Hey Dave show me the academic journal you got this...Hey Dave show me the academic journal you got this stuff published in. show me the brilliants articles you have the major academic journals?<br /><br />He comes to my blog and whines "show me a God argument so I can crush your arguments and show how stupid it is to believe." I told him "unles we lay the ground work it will seem stupid to you. So before I do that I want to lay the ground work.<br Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-55786233872371495702009-04-13T11:14:00.000-07:002009-04-13T11:14:00.000-07:00I'll respond later. Have a presentation to make.I'll respond later. Have a presentation to make.BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-86096647807891975092009-04-13T09:00:00.000-07:002009-04-13T09:00:00.000-07:00As your very question points out, even if somethin...<B><BR/>As your very question points out, even if something is good in all of its finite parts, it is still limited in goodness. Only that which is limitless and infinite can be perfectly good. <BR/></B><BR/><BR/>Then you and I define "perfectly good" differently. I define it as "completely good".<BR/><BR/>And you still haven't addressed my objection to your claim that if something is finite butDavid B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-31597591269962851142009-04-13T08:00:00.000-07:002009-04-13T08:00:00.000-07:00JD, yes, you are correct. We human beings have a g...JD, yes, you are correct. We human beings have a great potential for evil, all of us. This is a very sad state of affairs, I know. But we also have a great potential for good, all of us. Why focus on one potential and not the other? I could just as easily focus on the self-sacrificing people who have given up life, limb, and property at little or no immediate benefit to themselves and made the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-48570832179932698222009-04-13T07:01:00.000-07:002009-04-13T07:01:00.000-07:00But why should one think that something finite whi...<EM>But why should one think that something finite which was good in all its finite parts and as a finite whole is imperfect?</EM><BR/><BR/>Your example of a something that is finite that is perfect is...? In other words, one of the things that tells us that things that are finite are not perfect is experience. The other thing is quite simple: that which is finite is limited by its very nature. BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-62385585711992336482009-04-13T05:34:00.000-07:002009-04-13T05:34:00.000-07:00And Ellis, God did not dictate to Jesus in the way...<B><BR/>And Ellis, God did not dictate to Jesus in the way you suggest. Remember, Jesus is God and a volunteer. I can see having questions about a solely penal substitionary view but those concerns are best stated with an accurate representation of its underlying beliefs. Otherwise, it looks much like a strawman instead of real questions about the theology you are questioning.<BR/></B><BR/><BR/>David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-75475139795265204662009-04-12T19:08:00.000-07:002009-04-12T19:08:00.000-07:00Ah...David,Still spouting trite commentary, I see....Ah...David,<BR/><BR/>Still spouting trite commentary, I see. Let me ask you somthing since you seem to have all of the answers. <BR/><BR/>Let's assume for a moment that God exists. (Yes, I know that will be difficult for you, but I am sure that you are capable of such imaginings.) And let me further give some of the attributes of God so that you don't have to wonder. God is the ideal being. He isBKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1993149552712270782009-04-12T19:00:00.000-07:002009-04-12T19:00:00.000-07:00Ellis,I'm a fan of the kaleidescopic view, which s...Ellis,<BR/><BR/>I'm a fan of the kaleidescopic view, which sees merit in the penal substitutionary perspective but think it is too narrow to account for the full meaning of Jesus' death and resurrection. <BR/><BR/>And Ellis, God did not dictate to Jesus in the way you suggest. Remember, Jesus is God and a volunteer. I can see having questions about a solely penal substitionary view but those Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-16190081063586727222009-04-12T17:26:00.000-07:002009-04-12T17:26:00.000-07:00Layman, what theory of atonement do you favor?Seri...Layman, what theory of atonement do you favor?<BR/><BR/>Seriously, this whole, "I sent my son to be tortured to death to heal the rift between humanity and myself" just sounds sick and depraved.<BR/><BR/>But maybe you can clear it up for me. The penal substitution theory (the one I grew up hearing the most on Sunday mornings in my Southern Methodist church) obviously doesn't cut it.<BR/><BR/>So David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-88246034364304753482009-04-12T17:22:00.000-07:002009-04-12T17:22:00.000-07:00Yes, you are an imperfect being capable, under the...Yes, you are an imperfect being capable, under the wrong pressures, of doing terrible things.<BR/><BR/>Therefore you should feel terribly guilty for failing to be as infallible as a god---and convert to Christianity.<BR/><BR/>Because this morally perfect God did the most wonderful thing for you....dictated that his son must be tortured to death.<BR/><BR/>Which....uh....well.....somehow makes David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-38642278810017704932009-04-12T14:31:00.000-07:002009-04-12T14:31:00.000-07:00So let me get this straight, I'm guilty because I'...So let me get this straight, I'm guilty because I'm capable of evil?CallMeIrresponsiblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-60341096339487919262009-04-12T01:35:00.000-07:002009-04-12T01:35:00.000-07:00John,Very thought provoking post. I saw the "mon...John,<BR/><BR/>Very thought provoking post. I saw the "monstrous evil" tab and had to read it.<BR/><BR/>I would add a few points. <BR/><BR/>Of course we don't think most of our fellow humans have done something worthy of the death penalty because we all judge each other from the same fallen condition. That's fine as far as it goes and necessary for human civilization, but it really doesn't Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.com