tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post5894067120332751515..comments2024-03-14T08:15:15.207-07:00Comments on CADRE Comments: Debunking Christianity Swimming at the Shallow End of the Scholarly Pool, AgainBKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-66953343467636815952009-02-27T16:23:00.000-08:002009-02-27T16:23:00.000-08:00Layman,You might want to check out my newest post ...Layman,<BR/><BR/>You might want to check out my newest post over at DC (2-28-'09).<BR/><BR/><B>Louis Feldman on the Historical Jesus and the Truthfulness of the Gospels</B>Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-43358856870192474652009-02-22T21:03:00.000-08:002009-02-22T21:03:00.000-08:00Since you are still looking up information, how co...<I>Since you are still looking up information, how come you are so certain that you will disagree with me?</I><BR/><BR/>Harry: Since I have a new (up to date quote from Feldman) and asked Steve mason to consider this I light of Meire.<BR/><BR/>McCall to Mason: “Without hard facts as to exactly which parts are Christian interpolations, it appears to me that Prof. Meier’s editing and Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-5762586751854183792009-02-22T15:28:00.000-08:002009-02-22T15:28:00.000-08:00Since you are still looking up information, how co...Since you are still looking up information, how come you are so certain that you will disagree with me?<BR/><BR/>And I take it you are not going to defend your mistaken attacks, listed above, on me? Rather you are going to gloss over that and hide behind a new post?Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-16864079981921738772009-02-22T13:49:00.000-08:002009-02-22T13:49:00.000-08:00Sorry about the delay in by citric of Chris Price’...Sorry about the delay in by citric of Chris Price’s study on the Testimonium Flavianum (Ant. XVIII. 63 - 4) .<BR/><BR/>I have been discussions with this pericope with Steve Mason (via emails) and he has given me some great references in the way of books (now on order).<BR/><BR/>Until I get all my information organized for a clear rebuttal, my critic of Price’s Bede study on the <I>Testimonium</I>Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-70948482234837740362009-02-13T09:29:00.000-08:002009-02-13T09:29:00.000-08:00So McCall is not going to defend his specific clai...So McCall is not going to defend his specific claims against me that I fabricated facts and misrepresented the positions of leading scholars?<BR/><BR/>In any event, if you want to respond to my most up-to-date writing on Josephus and Jesus, you should pick up a copy of Shattering the Christ Myth. Chapter 1 is a revised article on Josephus that addresses the Testimonium and the James/Jesus Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-3781686939883508012009-02-12T13:44:00.000-08:002009-02-12T13:44:00.000-08:00{Taken from a comment on DC}My next major post wil...{Taken from a comment on DC}<BR/><BR/>My next major post will be on Christopher Price’s essay in the Bede’ Library on his study of Josephus’ Testimonium Flavianum and how he constructed a study drawn from facts and authors with the end goal to tell the reader what to think apologetcally.<BR/><BR/>When I finish my critic of Price’s study, I’ll welcome comments by anyone who would like to compare Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-21441623195919117822009-01-29T10:24:00.000-08:002009-01-29T10:24:00.000-08:00Layman, Good to see Harry put in his two cents. To...Layman, <BR/><BR/>Good to see Harry put in his two cents. Too bad he can't give you credit where due. But then, that's what happens when you have to figure out a way to defend the indfensible.BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-74601956729816107492009-01-29T10:00:00.000-08:002009-01-29T10:00:00.000-08:00I gave you the check list of scholars and supporti...I gave you the check list of scholars and supporting attestations. Have at it. But at least address "it."Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-64866740664943690772009-01-29T09:41:00.000-08:002009-01-29T09:41:00.000-08:00Layman: Don’t jump to conclusions as you did in yo...Layman: Don’t jump to conclusions as you did in your Josephus website study. <BR/><BR/>Lets be objective here. <I>misleading</I> adj, 1. Tending to mislead; <B>deceptive</B>. (<I>The American Heritage Dictionary</I>)<BR/><BR/>Stay tuned; it's coming!Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-41691908364054483192009-01-29T07:33:00.000-08:002009-01-29T07:33:00.000-08:00Harry,I already see some movement on your part. N...Harry,<BR/><BR/>I already see some movement on your part. No longer was I "deceitful" and "fabricating" facts. Now I am "subjective" and "misleading." Unflattering accusations, to be sure, but you are giving yourself a lot more wiggle room.<BR/><BR/>You are of course free to write about the full scope of my article or any subpart you find convenient, but my immediate concern was your "Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-66724343061201729532009-01-29T06:01:00.000-08:002009-01-29T06:01:00.000-08:00Since the Testimonium Flavianum post was written N...Since the <I>Testimonium Flavianum</I> post was written Nov. 29, ‘08 and not with Price’s webpage in mind (I only commented on it as an after thought in response to a question by John Loftus), I will post a new topic here at DC focusing on Christopher Price’s Josephus <I>Testimonium</I> web page and his subjective and misleading use of scholars and scholarship. I hope to have this out in two Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-37453050718313201532009-01-27T12:18:00.000-08:002009-01-27T12:18:00.000-08:00Peter,You might be interested to know that Haberma...Peter,<BR/><BR/>You might be interested to know that Habermas and Licona followed up with Louis Feldman in attempt to get a revised estimate:<BR/><BR/><B>In a personal e-mail to one of the authors (Nov. 26, 2001), Feldman admitted that his list for the period 1937 to 1980 is incomplete and that much on Josephus has appeared since 1980. Asked to make a rough assessment of where contemporary Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-63286613514736230662009-01-24T14:41:00.000-08:002009-01-24T14:41:00.000-08:00Being Peter Kirby, I can offer a unique perspectiv...Being Peter Kirby, I can offer a unique perspective on quoting my work as confirming J.P. Holding's representation of Feldman's "discernable statistics" (in that phrase of Holding's that I still remember off-hand). Although I did have access to the entire Feldman article, I didn't attempt to make my own division of the opinions surveyed and count them. Right or wrong, in every article in which I Peter Kirbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724603345241200742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-13331154364085425422009-01-22T14:18:00.000-08:002009-01-22T14:18:00.000-08:00Jon,Saying that my criticisms "may" be valid does ...Jon,<BR/><BR/>Saying that my criticisms "may" be valid does not necessarily entail that you are "reserving judgment until Harry offers a defense." It is especially bewildering for you to assert that this was your meaning and it should have been obvious when you ignored my explicit questions about whether you believed the criticism's were valid. Perhaps if you really wanted to keep to keep a Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-83057967774952793752009-01-22T13:05:00.000-08:002009-01-22T13:05:00.000-08:00Notice, Chris, that I started by saying that your ...Notice, Chris, that I started by saying that your criticisms may be valid. You followed that by asking if I thought they were valid or not. But I already said they <I>may</I> be valid. This means I don't know if they are valid or not. I am reserving judgment until Harry offers a defense. I have to take you at your word with regards to these citations, and if you've failed to represent Harry Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10530680372103907969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-49149287062096888132009-01-22T09:59:00.000-08:002009-01-22T09:59:00.000-08:00Can you quote me where I said it's OK for skeptics...<B>Can you quote me where I said it's OK for skeptics to misrepresent and make baseless accusations against Christianity?</B><BR/><BR/>Can you answer my question about whether you thought McCall mistaken in his attacks on me? Which is, after all, the subject of this post and about which I have directly asked for your opinion.<BR/><BR/>No, I do not claim that I could quote you nor did indicate Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-52753992735881330892009-01-22T05:39:00.000-08:002009-01-22T05:39:00.000-08:00I'd have to say Jon, I like how you argue! Good jo...I'd have to say Jon, I like how you argue! Good job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-56231003590819425172009-01-22T05:30:00.000-08:002009-01-22T05:30:00.000-08:00Talk about your double standards, you apparently t...<I>Talk about your double standards, you apparently think it okay for a fellow skeptic to misrepresent and make baseless accusations of dishonesty and deceit against a Christian</I><BR/><BR/>Can you quote me where I said it's OK for skeptics to misrepresent and make baseless accusations against Christianity?Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10530680372103907969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-38958668247646978822009-01-21T07:44:00.000-08:002009-01-21T07:44:00.000-08:00Defending atomizing and fire bombing cities? I can...<B>Defending atomizing and fire bombing cities? I can’t believe you are really this bad at recognizing the point. I’ve read some of your other material, Chris. I think you’re a smart enough guy. I can’t believe you really need to have this explained to you. Do you?</B><BR/><BR/>Not really. I do not think any amount of explaining will make the analogy any more apt.<BR/><BR/><B>I’m not asking you Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-89637446337022250522009-01-20T18:56:00.000-08:002009-01-20T18:56:00.000-08:00And I thought we were going to have a decent excha...<I>And I thought we were going to have a decent exchange of ideas. Then you have to throw it all away by putting words in my mouth, ignoring the crux of the point, and putting me in the supposed position of defending atomizing and fire bombing cities.</I><BR/><BR/>Defending atomizing and fire bombing cities? I can’t believe you are really this bad at recognizing the point. I’ve read some of Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10530680372103907969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-8963001502026683472009-01-20T17:29:00.000-08:002009-01-20T17:29:00.000-08:00Well obviously your family helped create the whole...Well obviously your family helped create the whole conspiracy. Besides, you have no eyewitness testimony as any that you provide could have been concocted years after the fact. :)<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>ahahahahahaah worse, I have no contemporary writer writing the year the conflict was happening.</B><BR/><BR/>You’re not a member of an ancient sect of people dedicated to keeping the Civil War hoax Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-87137084069848243312009-01-20T14:07:00.000-08:002009-01-20T14:07:00.000-08:00Jon,And I thought we were going to have a decent e...Jon,<BR/><BR/>And I thought we were going to have a decent exchange of ideas. Then you have to throw it all away by putting words in my mouth, ignoring the crux of the point, and putting me in the supposed position of defending atomizing and fire bombing cities. <BR/><BR/>And surely you are not surprised that I as a Christian am happy when people come into a relationship with Christ and sad Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-70625011903911488812009-01-20T13:30:00.000-08:002009-01-20T13:30:00.000-08:00Such a candid admission, Chris. Throwing away you...Such a candid admission, Chris. Throwing away your skepticism based upon an incompetent assessment of the relevant facts is good. Throwing away your faith based upon an incompetent assessment of the relevant facts is very sad.<BR/><BR/>This might suggest that whether the assessment is competent or incompetent is irrelevant. This just boils down to the fact that deconversion is bad and Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10530680372103907969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-89122018917629904632009-01-20T13:28:00.000-08:002009-01-20T13:28:00.000-08:00Mr. Hinman,"Civil war didnt' happen! So my grandmo...Mr. Hinman,<BR/><BR/>"Civil war didnt' happen! So my grandmother's father was wounded while a camping trip at a place called Shiloh? Yea, a bunch of boys from the south decided to go camping at this Shiloh place and some boys form the north just happened to be there and shot at them, but it wasn't war, it was a camping trip."<BR/><BR/>Well obviously your family helped create the whole conspiracy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-54751197669561353332009-01-20T11:47:00.000-08:002009-01-20T11:47:00.000-08:00I took this to be similar to the Roman Catholic cr...<B>I took this to be similar to the Roman Catholic criticism. You are using your mind. Your mind is imperfect and prone to error. Don't trust your mind. Place your trust in the very old and wise statements from the church. I'm saying I have no choice but to rely on my own assessments, whether they are incompetent or not. Based upon your further clarification between incompetent and infallible I'mLaymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.com