tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post2075137641998388866..comments2024-03-14T08:15:15.207-07:00Comments on CADRE Comments: Documentation and Atheist IncredulityBKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-59645873268376948562009-05-07T13:21:00.000-07:002009-05-07T13:21:00.000-07:00"but they would have been over your head anyway"
..."but they would have been over your head anyway"<br /><br /><B>You won't even give me the chance?! Even God gives us a chance to live up to his ideals. Is condescension a Christian value? Here's your chance to live up to your ideals.</B>""fathering dying. big deal. father came back to life, o rats no inheritance. no need to think any deeper than that."<br /><br /><B>I can't find a quote by CallMeIrresponsiblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-48379089544621013922009-05-07T09:11:00.000-07:002009-05-07T09:11:00.000-07:00JL, your last post, you may not disagree, had no a...JL, your last post, you may not disagree, had no arguments, just claims. But what if I responded in kind? Senseless, huh? So why did you? We could go on like that forever.<br /><br /><B>The first version of it was long and involved but I wanted to change some things so I was re-doing it when something came up and I just posted without really getting into what I wanted to say.</B>Furthermore, someJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-88931457575419018992009-05-06T12:58:00.000-07:002009-05-06T12:58:00.000-07:00JL, your last post, you may not disagree, had no a...JL, your last post, you may not disagree, had no arguments, just claims. But what if I responded in kind? Senseless, huh? So why did you? We could go on like that forever. <br /><br />Furthermore, some things you said I would have responded to if I could have understood what they meant in English. I asked for clarification, but you ignored my requests. Whose fault is that? <br /><br />I CallMeIrresponsiblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-70651940579136921122009-05-06T12:51:00.000-07:002009-05-06T12:51:00.000-07:00ahahahah Irresponsible, your answers are not cleve...ahahahah Irresponsible, your answers are not clever, they are not intelligent, you have not answered one damn thing I said.<br /><br />All you are doing is repeated your same tired beaten disproved party line from the atheist ideology that lost in the nineteenth century.<br /><br />constantly refusing to oepn your eyes and see what's there is not proof its not doubt it's just silly.Gain saying Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-23861938757153619592009-05-06T10:01:00.000-07:002009-05-06T10:01:00.000-07:00"ahahahahahaah" and all CAPS is not a persuasive ..."ahahahahahaah" and all CAPS is not a persuasive argument in any case, but especially given the following:<br /><br /><B>"For the "fallacy of the excluded middle" see False dilemma." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_excluded_middle<br /><br />I agree that absolute proof is difficult, although to continue the conversation about that, we should first clarify what we mean by "absolute CallMeIrresponsiblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-46185478626002899632009-05-06T08:45:00.000-07:002009-05-06T08:45:00.000-07:00"Of cousre they can't prove it's a miralce."
I th..."Of cousre they can't prove it's a miralce."<br /><br />I think you're not saying this sarcastically, but I'm not sure. If this is what you believe, then you've just admitted the miracle isn't proved.<br /><br /><br /><B>I don't mean to offend you. I am not saying this as an insult to make you feel bad. But you are thinking about this way too simpoistically. You apparently don't have the Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-79403345688381836622009-05-05T20:53:00.000-07:002009-05-05T20:53:00.000-07:00Oops, I meant "If we can't explain it scientifical...Oops, I meant "If we <B>can't</B> explain it scientifically . . . ."CallMeIrresponsiblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-49038493699404057842009-05-05T20:20:00.000-07:002009-05-05T20:20:00.000-07:00JL Hinman:
"Of cousre they can't prove it's a mira...JL Hinman:<br />"Of cousre they can't prove it's a miralce."<br /><br />I think you're not saying this sarcastically, but I'm not sure. If this is what you believe, then you've just admitted the miracle isn't proved. <br /><br />"Even a guy in a whtie robe appeared with nail prints in his hands and raised soemone form the dead you would still say it's not proof. "<br /><br />If that actually CallMeIrresponsiblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-3514352296592293242009-05-05T18:38:00.000-07:002009-05-05T18:38:00.000-07:00More info from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourde...More info from<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Medical_Bureau<br /><br /><B>you want real evdience and docs but this is not a credible source.</B>The doctors only proclaim "medically inexplicable," which leaves itself open to a God-of-the-gaps debunking.<br /><br /><br /><B>No it's not! Of cousre they can't prove it's a miralce. Even a guy in a whtie robe appeared with nail prints in Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-85356415620999358392009-05-05T18:33:00.000-07:002009-05-05T18:33:00.000-07:00t's unfair and unrealistic to expect me to be a me...t's unfair and unrealistic to expect me to be a medical library. I am not the vatican.I don't have Charles Anns x-rays. I've tried to get them and that's a very involved process. I have even less pull with the RCC hierarhcy than I with the U.S. government.<br /><br />How is it my fault that you lack the evidence to support your claims?<br /><br /><B>I don't lack evdience I gave it. you don't wantJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-32268991827422968132009-05-05T17:49:00.000-07:002009-05-05T17:49:00.000-07:00More info from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourd...More info from <br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Medical_Bureau<br /><br />The doctors only proclaim "medically inexplicable," which leaves itself open to a God-of-the-gaps debunking. <br /><br />"For a cure to be recognised as medically inexplicable, certain facts require to be established:<br /><br />The original diagnosis must be verified and confirmed beyond doubt<br /><br />The CallMeIrresponsiblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-21793513129720318052009-05-05T15:46:00.000-07:002009-05-05T15:46:00.000-07:00It's unfair and unrealistic to expect me to be a m...<B>It's unfair and unrealistic to expect me to be a medical library. I am not the vatican.I don't have Charles Anns x-rays. I've tried to get them and that's a very involved process. I have even less pull with the RCC hierarhcy than I with the U.S. government.<br /></B>How is it my fault that you lack the evidence to support your claims?<br /><br />Does the Vatican not have internet access? Are David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-4364559798321935352009-05-05T13:24:00.000-07:002009-05-05T13:24:00.000-07:00Except of course, that such evidence has not yet b...Except of course, that such evidence has not yet been presented. I specifically asked that more detail be provided so that we could look at the claim in depth. So far that has not been done. Instead there has simply been a lot of complaining that our standards of evidence aren't low enough to suit you.<br /><br /><br /><B>It's unfair and unrealistic to expect me to be a medical library. I am not Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-44825356092946089932009-05-05T13:20:00.000-07:002009-05-05T13:20:00.000-07:00Yes, we should accept as reliable the conclusions ...Yes, we should accept as reliable the conclusions of a committee created by an organization whose livelihood depends on peoples belief in the supernatural.<br /><br /><br /><B>Atheist assumption about the nature of belief; based upon personal animocity and not facts; masking the informal fallacy of guilt by assocition.<br /><br />The committee is independent.</B>And should I believe the Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-23517875532801056372009-05-05T13:18:00.000-07:002009-05-05T13:18:00.000-07:00JD,
Why would they need evidence when they know i...JD,<br /><br />Why would they need evidence when they know its impossible?Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-10206275659625507052009-05-05T13:16:00.000-07:002009-05-05T13:16:00.000-07:00This committee's job is RULE OUT as many would-be ...<B>This committee's job is RULE OUT as many would-be miracles as it possibly can.<br /></B>Sure it is. And by claiming that they excluded thousands it sounds, to the credulous, like the cases they accepted must be the real deal.<br /><br /><B>Wow. And I actually thought atheists were interested in looking seriously at the evidence. The minute you present concrete, in-your-face empirical evidenceDavid B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-36755953486113160512009-05-05T13:11:00.000-07:002009-05-05T13:11:00.000-07:00You just don't get it, do you, Ellis? This committ...You just don't get it, do you, Ellis? This committee's job is RULE OUT as many would-be miracles as it possibly can. They don't NEED to convince ANYONE of the existence of the supernatural, people do that anyway. Their purpose is to make sure church authorities don't look like idiots by calling something a miracle when it's not. If their only job is to keep people believing in the supernatural Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-63415674078779517632009-05-05T11:33:00.000-07:002009-05-05T11:33:00.000-07:00Yes, we should accept as reliable the conclusions ...Yes, we should accept as reliable the conclusions of a committee created by an organization whose livelihood depends on peoples belief in the supernatural.<br /><br />And should I believe the conclusions of a committee formed by the American Association of Professional Psychics to draw conclusions about the existence of paranormal powers?<br /><br />These arguments from miracles are ready made toDavid B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-78386075112594374052009-05-05T06:47:00.000-07:002009-05-05T06:47:00.000-07:00RCC has two miracle committees that investigate su...RCC has two miracle committees that investigate such claims: (1) Lourdes; (2) saint making commitee. These are basically the same committees and they go by the same rules.<br /><br />The rules are well known to be very strong. Lourdes miracles are the best documented in the world. they use medical experts from all over the Europe, the top medical people on that continent. They use skeptics on theJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-20643156919125546492009-05-05T06:43:00.000-07:002009-05-05T06:43:00.000-07:00Hey Dave. you put this up as I wrote my answer to ...<B>Hey Dave. you put this up as I wrote my answer to the previous.</B>The question of whether the supposed medical documentation involved error when investigating supposed miraculous healings is not only a legitimate question to raise. Its an essential one---at least for anyone who actually wants to know the truth of the matter.<br /><br /><br /><B>Yes it is a valid question. I was not saying it Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-60477144437525074082009-05-05T06:40:00.001-07:002009-05-05T06:40:00.001-07:00lol I was raised in the mian line c of c. that mea...lol I was raised in the mian line c of c. that means pro sundayschool, multi-cup, non instrumental, a mil. But as a teenager I became an atheist and my parents became charismatics. They began going to a "progressive" C of C in Dallas, one of the new breed where people sought the gifts and they didn't think they were the only true church.<br /><br />I got saved when I was 23 (1979) and I began Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-88782595376627317262009-05-05T06:40:00.000-07:002009-05-05T06:40:00.000-07:00The question of whether the supposed medical docum...The question of whether the supposed medical documentation involved error when investigating supposed miraculous healings is not only a legitimate question to raise. Its an essential one---at least for anyone who actually wants to know the truth of the matter.<br /><br />And in this entire post you have not even bothered to address that problem---you've simply complained, in effect, that we David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-58736909828243060702009-05-05T03:49:00.000-07:002009-05-05T03:49:00.000-07:00J.L., I'm an Independent Christian Church guy, it'...J.L., I'm an Independent Christian Church guy, it's nice to see more restoration flavor on the net.<br /><br />And I'm definitely not a cessationist, that was a reaction in doctrine, IMHO.Brad Haggardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14814856985147330634noreply@blogger.com