tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post115562823295669224..comments2024-03-14T08:15:15.207-07:00Comments on CADRE Comments: The Grace Series: "Romans 5:2 - The State of Grace" Part IIBKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155912186377268312006-08-18T07:43:00.000-07:002006-08-18T07:43:00.000-07:00You're welcome! {g}{{Yes. One could even note that...You're welcome! {g}<BR/><BR/>{{Yes. One could even note that of the six or so passages Paul quotes in his Romans 2 listing of sin, every single one in the original context disagrees with the doctrinal thesis that every human who ever lived is unnacceptable to God. }}<BR/><BR/>Well, if it comes to that, there are things Paul himself says in Rom 2 that kind of imply something other than that Jason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155870363150176732006-08-17T20:06:00.000-07:002006-08-17T20:06:00.000-07:00By the way Jason, thanks for your comments on the ...By the way Jason, thanks for your comments on the ambiguity of Psalm 14:1-3 - I wasn't actually aware of that!Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01904922191977808104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155870250937432012006-08-17T20:04:00.000-07:002006-08-17T20:04:00.000-07:00One could add much the same point about St. Paul's...<I>One could add much the same point about St. Paul's use of Psalm 14, too</I>-<BR/><BR/>Yes. One could even note that of the six or so passages Paul quotes in his Romans 2 listing of sin, every single one in the original context disagrees with the doctrinal thesis that every human who ever lived is unnacceptable to God. <BR/><BR/>This in turn may lead us to question whether an interpretation of Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01904922191977808104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155820681229934302006-08-17T06:18:00.000-07:002006-08-17T06:18:00.000-07:00One could add much the same point about St. Paul's...One could add much the same point about St. Paul's use of Psalm 14, too--he's targuming the verses in order to make his own point, which in the case of Rom 3, as well as the larger contexts of the first half of Romans up through what we call chp 11, has to do with trying to stop the constant blaming and infighting among Jewish and Gentile members of the Roman congregation.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, Jason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155771851314137552006-08-16T16:44:00.000-07:002006-08-16T16:44:00.000-07:00Well, reading Isa 63 will give you the context, lo...Well, reading Isa 63 will give you the context, looking to the past times when God shepherded his seemingly faithful flock, and then they rebelled against him. In chapter 64, verse 5 reaffirms "You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways." (NRSV) Quite obviously the prophets point is NOT "humans, no matter how hard they try, can never please God by their own effort".Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01904922191977808104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155765799080738192006-08-16T15:03:00.000-07:002006-08-16T15:03:00.000-07:00Andrew, Just curious, I just read Isaiah 64 from s...Andrew, <BR/><BR/>Just curious, I just read Isaiah 64 from start to finish, and I don't see that portion of the passage affirming that Israel used to be righteous. Of course, I could be skipping what you are referencing. Can you be more specific?BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155763897941693272006-08-16T14:31:00.000-07:002006-08-16T14:31:00.000-07:00Isaiah 64:6, "all our righteousness are as filthy ...Isaiah 64:6, "all our righteousness are as filthy rags."<BR/><BR/>In context, the prophet is lamenting that once Israel followed God and walked in his ways, and now they have turned away from God and their current level of righteousness is like menstrual rags by comparison. The point is not that no humans are righteous before God - in fact the passage affirms that Israel used to be.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01904922191977808104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155752108098041412006-08-16T11:15:00.000-07:002006-08-16T11:15:00.000-07:00Whoops--thought the word verification had moved al...Whoops--thought the word verification had moved along whilst editing, and that it was asking me to re-enter. {g} I deleted the double-post.Jason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155752007414025252006-08-16T11:13:00.001-07:002006-08-16T11:13:00.001-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Jason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155751987967701042006-08-16T11:13:00.000-07:002006-08-16T11:13:00.000-07:00I can't find that quote in my copy of TGD. Ref?It ...I can't find that quote in my copy of TGD. Ref?<BR/><BR/>It would be very peculiar for Lewis to have written that anywhere in TGD, btw--since, even though it might be said that those in hell (in the story of TGD) would rather not be bothered by the people in heaven (or even by the other people in hell), the whole thrust of his soteriology is that they _are_ going to be bothered by the Best PersonJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.com