tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post115487468827133849..comments2024-03-14T08:15:15.207-07:00Comments on CADRE Comments: Jesus CocktailBKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155081610955855692006-08-08T17:00:00.000-07:002006-08-08T17:00:00.000-07:00They knew who had released them from Egypt, but Mo...<B><I>They knew who had released them from Egypt, but Moses threatened them with death if they disagreed.</B></I><BR/><BR/>It's clear that the purpose of Pentateuchal accounts is to portray the Jews as the one true God's chosen people. If these accounts are fabricated, then, why would they include this story where the one true God's chosen people turn their back on this one true God and nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14978522088646818858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155066923050753212006-08-08T12:55:00.000-07:002006-08-08T12:55:00.000-07:00Layman: It's been nice to see some traffic from so...Layman: <I>It's been nice to see some traffic from some skeptics lately. Hope it continues.</I><BR/><BR/>I've been visiting off and on, and I just didn't have much to say until the topic was superstition and the supernatural.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155066644390279922006-08-08T12:50:00.000-07:002006-08-08T12:50:00.000-07:00BK: I hope I don't take up too much space here, bu...BK: I hope I don't take up too much space here, but think of this (from my book):<BR/><BR/>Nebuchadnezzer believed that dreams came from the gods as divine communication. And he had magicians and sorcerers that he depended upon to advise him and help run his whole country (see Daniel 5:7). How would that go over in today's world, if the President had such advisors? What if one advisor were to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155065678985368592006-08-08T12:34:00.000-07:002006-08-08T12:34:00.000-07:00I don't want to make toomuch of this argument, but...I don't want to make toomuch of this argument, but the Israelites fashioned a golden calf “on the third month after the Israelites left Egypt,” plus forty days and nights (Exodus 19:1; 24:18). I was wrong, it was <B>four months and ten days later</B> these people (“all the people,” Exodus 32:3) wanted to worship a golden calf that Aaron said, “brought you out of Egypt.” But because they did Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155061633921431962006-08-08T11:27:00.000-07:002006-08-08T11:27:00.000-07:00Anyway, yours is one of the most intelligent Chris...<I>Anyway, yours is one of the most intelligent Christian blogs out there.</I><BR/><BR/>I appreciate that, but defer most of that to BK. <BR/><BR/>It's been nice to see some traffic from some skeptics lately. Hope it continues.<BR/><BR/>As for the 40 days, I'd have to reread it again. Like I said, OT is not my apologetics focus. 40 days is often used to refer to an indeterminate amount of Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155059374618581792006-08-08T10:49:00.001-07:002006-08-08T10:49:00.001-07:00Zok,Excellent point.Zok,<BR/><BR/>Excellent point.BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155059341850543032006-08-08T10:49:00.000-07:002006-08-08T10:49:00.000-07:00I read your post on the Achilles Heel, and find it...I read your post on the Achilles Heel, and find it not particularly persuasive (but then, you didn't expect me to find it persuasive). You want to read the Bible free of the supernatural elements, but the Bible doesn't allow for that because it is the story of an extra-natural beings' involvement in history. <BR/><BR/>I have done a serious study of the dating of Daniel. No, I have not done a BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155048862766682242006-08-08T07:54:00.000-07:002006-08-08T07:54:00.000-07:00BK said, I know of no one who doesn't believe that...BK said, <I>I know of no one who doesn't believe that the people of the ancient world were "superstititious"</I><BR/><BR/>They were superstitious to the core, and yet you believe what they claimed even though you are now a modern person. I call this the <A HREF="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2006/01/achilles-heel-of-christianity.html" REL="nofollow">Achilles Heel of Christianity.</AAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155044503938387862006-08-08T06:41:00.000-07:002006-08-08T06:41:00.000-07:00John,I guess that I would simply respond to your n...John,<BR/><BR/>I guess that I would simply respond to your note by saying that I know of no one who doesn't believe that the people of the ancient world were "superstititious" (to use your word, although I personally think that they are better described as being accepting of multiple deities). But a reading of the story of Nebuchadnezzar in the Book of Daniel gives some insight into their views. BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155043766657264492006-08-08T06:29:00.000-07:002006-08-08T06:29:00.000-07:00All of Jesus' miracles were done for a purpose -- ...All of Jesus' miracles were done for a purpose -- to point to his deity, make a point, signify that the messianic age had arrived. What is the purpose of this?<BR/><BR/>As far as Jesus teaching in parables, yes they were masked so that those who had ears could hear, but Jesus still clearly told them for the purpose of teaching, whether or not certain people were able to figure exactly what that nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14978522088646818858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1155041432990688282006-08-08T05:50:00.000-07:002006-08-08T05:50:00.000-07:00I didn't figure we would come to an agreement when...I didn't figure we would come to an agreement when I first commented here. I just wanted to raise an issue about supernaturalism, and you answered as I expected that you would. And, yes, Layman, I had seen that article and knew it was you from TWEB. I have not done as much study in that area, but if you looked at my links I have read through the Bible looking for clues as to the superstititous Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1154991622827879552006-08-07T16:00:00.000-07:002006-08-07T16:00:00.000-07:00You’d be surprised at how many backwards hicks are...You’d be surprised at how many backwards hicks are Christian… Not that there aren’t a lot of backwards hicks who aren’t, but just saying… <BR/><BR/>“What is the criteria that you as a Christian use to distinguish between such things? For Christians who believe them, they are counted as religious experiences. And as Karth Barth said, God could speak through a Russian Flute concerto.”<BR/><BR/>“slaveofonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493574936843969520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1154981363707228272006-08-07T13:09:00.000-07:002006-08-07T13:09:00.000-07:00"Layman, then is it not true that with the proper ..."Layman, then is it not true that with the proper background knowledge such things can count as "signs" to some believers? Is this really nonsense to them from their perspective?"<BR/><BR/>Well, with the proper background beliefs then someone could reasonably interpret the shrimp as a sign. But that does not make the proper background beliefs reasonable. And I don't want to speak for Catholics.Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1154971387672114912006-08-07T10:23:00.000-07:002006-08-07T10:23:00.000-07:00John,God can do anything He wants to do that isn't...John,<BR/><BR/>God can do anything He wants to do that isn't logically impossible. But that doesn't mean that I should be readily accepting any and everything that hints of being from God as being from God. In this case, there is no reason to believe that the image if that of Jesus because no one alive today really knows what Jesus looked like. If God were going to make a sign, how does an image BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1154970452381286492006-08-07T10:07:00.000-07:002006-08-07T10:07:00.000-07:00I agree with you Layman, and I understand what you...I agree with you Layman, and I understand what you're saying bk.<BR/><BR/>Layman, then is it not true that with the proper <I>background knowledge</I> such things can count as "signs" to some believers? Is this really <I>nonsense</I> to them from their perspective? And aren't you limiting what your God can do by discounting these signs? Again, how do you know that these things aren't from God?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1154969255948121342006-08-07T09:47:00.000-07:002006-08-07T09:47:00.000-07:00Hello John,Welcome to you and others from the Debu...Hello John,<BR/><BR/>Welcome to you and others from the Debunking Christianity website. <BR/><BR/>How can I discount these "images" of Jesus (and the Virgin Mary) as theophanies? That's very simple: A theophany is a visible appearance of God to human beings -- not the appearance of an image of God to human beings. Show me in the Bible an example of a theophany that is the appearance of an image BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01967809861892681780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1154962356887696072006-08-07T07:52:00.000-07:002006-08-07T07:52:00.000-07:00A quick shorthand for evaluating a miracle claim i...A quick shorthand for evaluating a miracle claim is that what is being considered either 1) was impossible, or 2) unlikely and had special meaning. <BR/><BR/>The shrimp picture was not number one. <BR/><BR/>Frankly, I'm not sure how unlikely it is for a vaguely manlike profile to be visible in observing a shrimp, but lean towards not finding it all that remarkable. But assuming it was, then itLaymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11761410435140602771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6363362.post-1154954564099236702006-08-07T05:42:00.000-07:002006-08-07T05:42:00.000-07:00Not all Christians are this gullible of course, bu...Not all Christians are this gullible of course, but how do you as a Christian convince them otherwise? What if these images are truly of Jesus for some sign? And what if the Mary sightings are of the virgin? What is the criteria that you as a Christian use to distinguish between such things? For Christians who believe them, they are counted as religious experiences. And as Karth Barth said, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com